Scott Gorham and John Sykes
Interview by Dawn Irwin
North Wales Theatre, Llandudno, 27 th March 2006
If some people were beginning to question the validity of continuing the Thin Lizzy franchise after the 2005 tour, then 2006 would demonstrate clearly that the amazing body of work that is Thin Lizzy still retains all of its vibrancy. In remembrance of the band’s founder, alumni Scott Gorham and John Sykes, along with Marco Mendoza (bass) and Michael Lee (drums) embarked on the 20/20 tour – twenty shows, twenty dates, one for each year that has passed since Philip Lynott died. This tour was all the more poignant because it not only marked the twentieth anniversary, but also followed on the heels of the unveiling of the long awaited statue in Grafton Street in Dublin.
I myself am a life-long fan and consider myself lucky to have seen Thin Lizzy perform in Belfast in the halcyon days following the release of Jailbreak. I was delighted when I heard that Scott and John had decided to reform and since 1996 haven’t missed a tour. This time round, I made darned sure I wouldn’t let the opportunity of an interview go by, but at the same time I have to confess I was slightly daunted at the prospect of interviewing one of my original rock and roll heroes. Imagine how I felt, therefore, when I got the call with 48 hours to go, asking me to interview John Sykes as well! Any butterflies I was feeling as I approached the room were, however, immediately dispelled by a cheery hello from Marco Mendoza followed by warm smiles, handshakes and welcome hugs from John and Scott.
Great to meet you, guys. How’s the tour going so far?
John Sykes (JS) : it’s going great…. fantastic.
Scott Gorham (SG) : This is probably the most fun tour we’ve done in a fair few years. We keep expecting things to go wrong and they just won’t go wrong, you know…. (unfortunately these words were ripe for the eating, as with 3 dates to go, John came down with a throat virus)
JS: part of it is that we have a really top notch crew with the sound and lights everyone’s really on top of their game and it makes our life a lot easier. As far as the band goes we really don’t have to worry about what everyone else is doing.
SG: ..and I think the audiences now really know what to expect. There are no surprises about who’s in the band or what they’re going to get. Also I think the younger side of the audience is coming out in droves, it’s not just an older generation anymore. These days we look out from the stage and see a sea of kids out there…
JS : it’s like three generations. We have them from like 3 and 4 years old up to 65 and everything in between.
What was the deciding factor about which venues to do for this 20 th Anniversary tour? Did you go back to favourite venues, or ones you’ve always sold out in the past?
SG : actually we didn’t have anything to do with that – that’s down to management and agencies. We just take care of the music side of it.
Are you looking forward to Dublin – the big finale?
JS : Always. Dublin’s a fantastic audience. Obviously it’s Phil’s home town ….
I hear one night is already sold out….?
SG : yeah, we were going to start with Dublin, at the Point, but then we kinda came to our senses and said “wow …. we’re going to make all our mistakes in front of everybody in Dublin (and on St Patrick’s day, and Scott’s birthday to boot) so we didn’t want to risk that. We wanted to make sure the show is really together and really greased before we go on to Dublin, so we switched it round and put Dublin at the end. Unfortunately the Point was booked for those dates, so we thought, what the hell, we’ll do two nights at Olympia instead which is a great theatre to play anyway.
Well it’s certainly a lot more intimate ….
JS : yeah, it’s more intimate and a much better vibe to play if you want to actually feel the audience. The big gigs are nice and all, but it’s a bit impersonal when you’re that far away from the crowd, and there’s a big echoey sound in the place ….
(At this point Scott grins and drawls in his inimitably languid style….”it’s a big square box”.)
… but in a little theatre you can get really tight with the audience and really feel their reaction.
Is this the last tour, or can we expect more from Thin Lizzy? Will you keep going?
SG : Well, we hope so!
JS : I think so!
SG : After this we’re supposed to be going off to America, then after that they’re talking about South America and then more shows in Europe, then there’s talk of Japan. It’s this ongoing thing. I mean, John and I were originally going to do 7 shows in Japan …
JS : yeah, then due to public demand, we just kept going out and doing more, right Scott?
SG : yeah, it really started out as 7 shows and that was going to be it … just to play the songs again and have a good time with it, then the train kept a-rollin’.
I’ve been speaking to some life long fans in the past couple of days, and Jim Lynch from Belfast would like to know why Belfast wasn’t included in this current tour ….
SG : actually, you know, I was wondering that myself .
JS : so was I, because Belfast is really good. Every time we’ve played there it’s been great.
SG : yeah, it usually goes Dublin, then Belfast, and when I saw that Belfast wasn’t included this time, I had to question that.
JS : it’s a great venue, too (referring to the Waterfront), and nice people (thanks, John!)
SG : I guess it’s just because it’s the 20/20. There are only 20 shows involved, and the usual sequence of Dublin then on to Belfast wasn’t going to work out after we’d changed the Point date. But yeah, you’re absolutely right, it’s criminal that they left it out.
So can you reassure the Belfast fans that you’ll play there next time round?
SG : oh absolutely. I mean, I’ve always loved going to Belfast. It’s such a great city. It’s been a great city since the seventies. You know, we were probably one of the only bands that would keep playing throughout the troubles. Everybody else was shit scared of going there in case they got bombed. Brian and Phil knew it wasn’t going to be like that, so we just said, well we’ll keep going and have those audiences all to ourselves … and we had a hell of a good time, too. (laughs). Where are you from?
(At this point I feel a confession is in order) I’m from Belfast. Moved to London in 1994.
SG : Traitor! (laughing)
Ah … but one of the advantages of that move was being able to see the “reformation” line up. Remember Brixton Academy 1996? I’ve not missed a show since. Anyway, I was rather hoping you’d be able to help with my fading memory of a show at the King’s Hall in 1978 … the website says you didn’t play there that year ….
SG : (laughs) Oh God, two of us with fading …. THREE of us with fading memories in the room.
JS : I remember us playing the King’s Hall in 1983…
SG : yeah, but we started off in the Ulster Hall back in the seventies for the real early stuff.
I still have a picture of the manager – there was like an avalanche of people trying to get on to the stage, and he’s out there holding them back, and it’s the greatest picture, man. I think we only did the Ulster hall maybe three times, and then after that it was always up to the King’s Hall – well it was bigger, and Jailbreak had hit real big at the time, and obviously more people wanted to see us so. …. I always liked it … thought it was a cool place. Do people still play there?
Not to my knowledge. Anyway, thanks for confirming that I’m not losing my mind just yet, Scott. Now, another Belfast fan, David Majury, would like to know why you’ve changed to Stratocasters. I heard somewhere that it might have been to do with an endorsement?
SG : No, I switched over purely because it just suited my style of guitar playing better. It’s a lighter guitar … I mean, have you felt John’s guitar? I’ve got all the admiration in the world for John for haulin' that thing around … it is so heavy…
(At this point John stands up and hands me his black Les Paul custom to hold and I try not to squeal with delight)
Um, yes, it certainly is heavy … (thinking my “other half” will never speak to me again!)
SG : can you imagine wearing that for 2 hours? You know, he does it every night, and I’m just in awe.
JS : (laughing) it takes a while for my shoulder to settle back in, but after about 8 days or so into a tour it’s there.…
SG : yeah, so I switched about 15 years ago and you know with strats you ‘re able to shave the necks, put different pick ups in there, paint the damned thing, do anything you want, just bastardise the hell out of it and it’s ok. But with a Les Paul, it’s almost illegal to do any of that stuff because it’s a “we’re not worthy” kind of guitar, right? I mean, I’ve got a couple of 59s and they’re all tucked away and I don’t even play them any more. You know, it’s purely just because I like messing with the guitar … it feels better to me and it’s lighter.
(At this point John takes over the questions)
JS : By the way did you enjoy the London show that you came to?
Oh yes, as always. I got my ticket really late, though, and had a seat up in the gods, although I’m right down at the front.
JS : oh, that’s a shame.
However, everyone within listening distance got a Thin Lizzy education from this particular anorak …
SG : Good on ya! Well, we got a different thing going this time. We’re pulling out a couple of surprises for this tour.
So I’d heard, and I’m looking forward to it. So this question is from Roland from London and is for both of you. Out of all the tracks you’ve written, do you have a favourite?
SG : well, we get this quite a lot, you know. I don’t know about John, but I don’t particularly have a favourite. I think if I had a favourite then it really wouldn’t be worth me going out and playing for 2 hours on stage. What happens with me is that we’ll do a 2 hour set, and I kind of go through phases of the set. I’ll look forward to the opening section, then the middle might slow down for me, then I love the end. And then maybe I’ll find different things to do within the songs, so at times I’d prefer the middle part because things are kind of new…. You know, I get a lot of people asking about my favourite song and once again, if you had a favourite song you’d just be on stage waiting for that one song to be coming at you, and it just wouldn’t be worth doing all the others. The reason I go out and do this is … well, it’s like guitar heaven for me and John, you know. We get up there, show our stuff, have a great time… I mean, this stuff was made for guitar. These tracks are a lot of fun to play, so to have a favourite is too limiting.
JS : it’s really hard to pick one. It’s like picking your favourite kid, I mean, how do you do it? There’s a bunch of great songs … I love Cold Sweat, I love some of the stuff I did with Whitesnake 1987, and I love a lot of the Blue Murder stuff as well, so I couldn’t really pick. I particularly love playing these songs, though, because Phil was one of the greatest songwriters of our time, bar none. I love his song-writing style. It was great how he could incorporate rock and add a bit of pop in there, with great dual guitar harmonies and his classic lyrics and melodies. It’s all encompassing in the songs, you know, and I think that’s what stands the test of time, especially with the Lizzy stuff.
Do you ever get fed up with the criticism that’s levelled at you for reforming the band again after Philip died?
JS : no, I really don’t. Fuck all the critics, man. If they don’t like it, don’t come, don’t buy a ticket. Actually the benchmark for me is seeing everybody in the place with their hands up at the gig every night. If people don’t show up I guess they’ll tell us not to do it but we sell out pretty much everywhere we go and everybody has a great time. But, you know, you’re always going to get the naysayers. Phil used to tell me that in the old days. You can’t please everybody, and that’s really true.
SG : yeah, I mean, we used to get it even when Phil was alive. Every band has to deal with this kind of thing. There’s no way you can go out there and expect everybody to like you… it’s not going to happen. I advise a lot of the younger guys coming into this business to grow a thick skin, because not everyone’s gonna like you. – it’s just not going to happen.
JS : (laughs) and the blokes might not like you because their girlfriend likes you. Yeah, there’s always gonna be the odd person who wants to poke you with a stick, but for every one of those there’s a hundred people who do like you, and that’s great.
SG : but I think the main thing also is when John and I did this again there were a few people who would criticise us because we were among the first guys to go out and do the reformation of a band. Now everybody and their grandmother does it, right? So what we’re finding is that those hard core critics are getting smaller in number now. And when we look out at our audiences, they’re getting younger. I think the kids these days want to see what it was all about. You know, they’ve heard their Dads and their older brothers talking for years about going to this gig and that gig, and they’re hearing about all these bands that were so fucking bitchin’. And now all they’re getting is this kind of pre-fab pop thing going down, right! And they’re getting fed up, so now they’re saying let’s see what these guys were all about.
JS : yeah, “let’s see some real players”…
SG : yeah, like “let’s see if my Dad was a fuckin' liar.”
Do you remember the 2001 Jordan Formula 1 10 th Anniversary? You asked us for directions to the pits … did you find your way ok?
SG : (laughing like a drain)… yeah, I found my way ok, thanks. That was a strange little show, because Eddie ( Jordan) asked us if we’d go up and play a few songs, like no big deal. We said ok, so me, Darren and Robbo put three songs together, found a bass player and a drummer and did a half day rehearsal. We were the only live thing there. Everybody else (Westlife et al) mimed to it, you know.
(we indulge in a little reminiscence about that day, then I realise time is marching on)
Scott, any possible live dates with 21 Guns in the future?
SG : Well, I think we want to get the album done first. But, yeah, Leif and I do want to do some sort of tour. We only ever did one tour with that band and it was a real short one in America, so I think this time we want to do a whole European thing.
Will you include Belfast in that?
SG : Yeah! I’ll make sure we do (grins)
John, a similar question for you. I spoke to a random selection of your fans and the common question seemed to be “when can we see more Blue Murder?”
JS : Well, I was talking to Carmine and Tony before I left for this tour and we’re probably going to get together later this year.
Is it ok if I give the readers a “heads up” on this?
JS : yes, absolutely. You know, when me and Scott are not doing Lizzy, we both have other things we want to stretch out on and do, and I definitely have a lot of questions about that band – it was a pretty heavy hard core band.
Do you think it was a case of wrong place wrong time for you?
JS : well, you know, when Kurt Cobain came about and the whole grunge thing, it just kind of unplugged the rest of us out because the whole scene just went “Phuttt” and that was it, you know.
SG : same thing with 21 Guns. Our production just went “it’s over” (draws his fingers across his throat).
Incidentally, have you seen the new Thunder and Lightning DVD yet?
JS : No, that’s the one I’m curious about. Where was that one shot?
Royal Dublin Society, apparently.
SG : Oh, I wasn’t aware of that. I haven’t seen it either. Is it good, was it properly filmed?
(we digress into a critique of the film footage, and finish with me imparting advice on where to buy a copy!)
John, most of your stuff is marketed through your website. Is that out of necessity or principle?
JS : No, I just put it through there because most of my stuff was recorded for Japan. I have a big following there, and I really haven’t worked much in Europe as I’ve been living in LA for 21 years. I guess I should’ve come to Europe and England a lot more, but I kind of neglected it.
Do you ever feel you’ve missed out?
JS: not really, no. Like I’ve always said, if an album isn’t going to get the right press and publicity and the right shove behind it, then I’d rather make the 15 bucks per CD on my own, rather than give a bunch of it to the record company and get a buck fifty.
SG : “I like it” (grins again)
JS : And especially these days, with the web and stuff, it’s great for doing that.
I agree, and on that point … why don’t you have a website, Scott?
SG : What? I thought I had one! (looks baffled). Actually, no I don’t keep up on that side of things! John’s got a great guy that does his. He’s always keeping everything up to date and all that. I kind of let mine fall by the wayside (laughs)
So that last posting on the Thin Lizzy Board – was that really you?
SG : What? I didn’t even know there was a posting ….
(feigning a look of exasperated confusion) I rest my case.
SG : I know, I know …. I am so lackadaisical when it comes to that! I’ll work on it!
Thanks again for your time, guys. it was a pleasure to meet you both, and I’m looking forward to the show. Enjoy the rest of the tour.
With that we part company as the guys have a sound check to attend to. I have a little time to muster my thoughts as I prepare to switch into photographer and reviewer mode… I had heard various, let’s say, unflattering, rumours about John Sykes over the years, but I am not one to set much store by malicious gossip and that, based on this experience, is all I can assume these “rumours” were. I encountered an individual who was charming, polite and articulate. In a word, likeable and a pleasure to interview, as indeed was Scott. Scott Gorham is one of the true Rock Gods and so languidly laid back, he’s practically horizontal. If every line on his lived-in face tells the story of someone who has really been there, seen it and done it, so does the grin which wipes away the years when he steps up on stage. The pair clearly have a deep understanding of one another, listen to one another and feed off each other just as well when they talk together, as when playing music. They obviously get on well and like nothing more than to get up there every night and PLAY and ENJOY what they’re doing.
Tonight, in a small venue, that enjoyment is palpable. Scott was right about pulling out some surprises. Since 1996 I’d never heard them do “Whiskey in the Jar”. Tonight, however they open up the set with it. I am ecstatic. A host of classics follow with barely a break between them, and the first time we hear John speak is to announce Waiting for an Alibi. They’re on a roll and having a ball, obliging me with plenty of shapes thrown for the camera (it’s great to be the only photographer in the pit!) Cold Sweat, Jailbreak and Ready to Rock lead into Sha La La which gives Michael Lee free reign to show his mettle. Since his days with Little Angels, this guy has developed into one of the rock world’s most versatile and sought after drummers and with good reason. He’s tight, subtle and razor sharp, and, just as he did while in the service of Messrs Page and Plant, pays fitting tribute to another of rock’s great drummers.
I had noticed Darren Wharton earlier in the evening, and the reason for his presence becomes apparent as he takes to the stage for Still in Love with You. We are then treated to a number of surprise tracks – Suicide, Warriors and Bad Reputation, and the set ends with Emerald and the classic segue of the Cowboy Song into The Boys are Back in Town. The encore is Dancing in the Moonlight, Rosalie and, one of my all time favourites, the awesome and emotional Black Rose.
Following Llandudno this assignment became somewhat of a pilgrimage, as I also went to Dublin to see the final show of the tour, taking the opportunity to pay a visit to Philip’s resting place and the statue. Throughout the three days I was there, I met many wonderful people who, having ascertained my reasons for being in Dublin, were only too happy to share their memories of Philip. There were the guys in the pub before the show who explained the reason why the statue occupies the place that it does, outside the Bruxelles night club. This had been one of Phil’s haunts and the statue being just outside, means that Philip’s memorial will always have people and friends nearby.
I met a great bunch of people at the after show party too. More memories, more stories, (more partying … well, it was Dublin after all !). I was honoured to meet Philomena Lynott, who gave me her number and insisted we go out for coffee next time I’m in Dublin.
Then there was Richard the bus driver, who during the long trip out to the cemetery at Sutton, recounted the many times he’d met Philip, the times he saw him with Skid Row and Lizzy, and the time he bought Philip a pint at Malaga airport. Richard ignored the regular bus stop, insisting instead on dropping me off right at the cemetery gates. At the grave there was a drawing of a Thin Lizzy logo, lovingly coloured in by a child, with a dedication:
“Dear Phil, my name is Sophie. I am age 9. My Dad told me all about you. He is a big fan. I visit your grave when I visit my 2 granddads and grandmas. I always leave you 50c for a pint. My favourite song is Old Town. Love, Sophie McCarthy.”
Needless to say this brought a few tears to my eyes. I know of no other figure in the “Rock” world who inspires such love and genuine affection. I think Scott Gorham says it best:
“We need to ensure we never forget his gift. The music needs to be played, the Thin Lizzy fans deserve a place to gather, and Phil’s memory along with Thin Lizzy should be kept alive for generations to discover”.
Amen to that.